Not Drinking from Trough in Winter
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January 2, 2010 09:27PM
Does anyone else have trouble with horses not drinking from the (heated) trough in the winter?
I've not seen anyone using it for quite some time - and it rarely drops in level either. (in the summer it will go down 6" give or take, daily)
They are drinking alot from their buckets inside at night - I have to top them up first thing in the morning as they are often empty. They guzzled half their buckets when they came in tonight.
The trough is located up at the barn, and their lean-to (which they are LOATHE to leave) is a ways out in the field. I salt their bowl feedings twice daily.
I am somewhat annoyed to pay all that hydro for nothing, not to mention the health ramifications of not drinking all day. Is it possible there is a low level electrical charge or something that I can't detect? The fish seem fine. Any ideas/similar findings?
January 2, 2010 10:06PM
It is possible.... the first year we were here, we moved in in Feb. and I noticed right away the horses were not drinking. With some investigation we found out that we have stray voltage here on our farm. Had a electrician out cost us 8 hours of labour to figure it out and then we had ON Hydro out and they worked for 3 whole days but could not find the source. It turns out the source can be several miles away it can travel over rock and such through the ground. The first few years we put covers on the troughs and only plugged in when they were covered and then unplugged when they weren't. Last year we bit the bullet and put rubber mats in the run in and since we have had no issues ..... I am not sure if it is even a problem anymore but I do not want to take the chance. It was our poor old Golden who detected jumped up on the side of the trough to take a drink and it blew him off his feet. If you have living fish in the tank then I would say it is not your problem.
January 3, 2010 12:14AM
Wow - that's quite the story stonehedge! Glad it seems to have resolved.
And actually our trough is sitting up on blocks of wood (to help with draining, downhill) and the blocks are on rubber matting already.
Maybe they are just too lazy to walk all the way up for a drink...but I notice that even when they make their way up here - they do not drink.
French seemed scared of the trough when I encouraged him to drink the other day - but he was distrustful of it when he first came here...thought maybe he was just having a flashback.
My riding mare almost ALWAYS delays her tacking up by taking a long slow drink from the trough before I can cross tie her - she hasn't done this for ages.
I stick my hand in it every day. It was cleaned not all that long ago, still looks OK/clear. We've used this submersed trough heater every winter for the past six...could it be emitting something I wonder?
Sorry for the lengthy dialogue, but now I'm really wondering what's going on. Probably shoulda wondered sooner...sorta like the cat mats 
January 3, 2010 12:42AM
A late night AHA! There is ONE thing different this year - at night when the horses are inside, I cover the trough with a felt-backed vinyl type cover to try to save energy. I sewed elastic around the underside edge (OK, so Brubacher's sewed it  ) so that it fits over the rim of the trough snugly. The felt underside is frosty when I take it off in the morning. Could that have some effect on the water?
Guess I'd better put some buckets out tomorrow and see if they drink it.
January 3, 2010 11:31AM
I agree with Stonehedge...although I do not water outside in troughs (I have the half barrel buckets which I just fill 1/3 of the way and dump the ice out every night and refill every day) I have a neighbour who had automatic heated waterbowls outside...her horses were getting sick and she couldn't figure out why...turns out, the horses were getting a shock from the waterbowl everytime they tried to drink...guess there was a short somewhere in it?...I also don't use troughs as I (personally) find it easier to know how much the horses are drinking each day...but I think Stonehedge is on the money with the electrical issue
January 3, 2010 12:17PM
Would we not be shocked tho too - when we stuck our hand in?
January 3, 2010 03:19PM
Just a quick chime in... I skimmed the thread so forgive me if I'm way off track!
My guess is stray voltage also... very common and can be very hard to figure out.
You might not feel it when you put your hand in, unless you take yer boots off and get as well grounded as the horses are (especially if they are shod!)... horse noses are also way more sensitive to the "tingle" than people hands.
I can't see the vinyl cover causing a problem unless little bits of the felt are dropping into the water and somehow making it yucky?
Electricity seems more likely.. but who knows???
Good luck and keep us posted!
GP
January 3, 2010 03:33PM
Try putting your tongue in?
Your tongue is more sensitive and you can smell/taste teh water as well to see if that is off.
Mine are drinking just fine from trough with heater, not that they have any choice.
I think as long as your guys are drinking in the barn, it shouldnt cause a health issue to willingly go without water during the day.
January 3, 2010 04:49PM
Thanks guys - its still a mystery here! I just led my mare up to the trough (away from her buddies and food albeit) and she too would not come close to the trough. She is very brave normally, and I all but took a drink myself - splashing, nose to the water, slurping noises. She found my behavior very interesting but would not approach. Put a bucket down near the trough and she drank.
None of them are shod, and they too would be standing on rubber mats in order to drink - the whole lean to that the trough sits under is matted.
There is also a ton of static electricity when I pull off their blankets at night - I have to be careful not to touch them or they get a huge shock and really jump. But I'm probably on a completely different track there. GP - I know, I shook my head this morning too regarding the 'trough cover' worries - talk about late night rambling 
Weird. OK, I'll go stick my tongue in. 
January 3, 2010 06:11PM
Let us know how the fish react to that manouver.
January 3, 2010 09:34PM
There was rather more 'zippin around' than I'm used to seeing at this time of year Gruff!
OK - so - boots off, standing on mats in socks, - arm in water to elbow...nothing...stuck tongue in water...nothing...gulped in a swallow. Nothing.
Don't think its electrical after all. Spouse thinks the ground fault interrupter (gfi) would sense any such problems and trip the connection. (told me this after my gulp of fish poo water)
January 3, 2010 10:24PM
Of course you were told AFTER the fish poo....
LMFAO!!!
January 3, 2010 10:37PM
The GFI will not kick out the stray voltage ... remember this is not coming from your electrical panel... it is coming out of the ground.... we had the power completely off at the main breaker in the house .... and were still getting 8 volts through the water, in the trough at the barn ....that is how we figured it out ... you need to take the voltage meter... you have 2 leads on it ... you put on into the ground and the other into the water and you should be able to tell... if your rubber mats are at all wet they will also carry voltage or if the horse could be off to one side .... the other important thing to remember is horses have 4 feet by which to complete the circuit.... it was a long a complicated struggle to get this figured out for us ...... I feel bad you are having to go through it too. The other thing you could try is to replace your tank heater and see if that helps .... it could have a short in it as well. If you call Ontario Hydro they are obligated to come out at no charge and figure out if there is a stray voltage issue.
Good Luck with this.
Oh and by the way ... a phone call to the guy who helped us out says the fish are not grounded so therefore they will be A ok.....
January 4, 2010 03:18PM
Is it possible tha the heater is emitting some sort of high pitched noise? Or perhaps the water is tasting really odd to them some how? i dunno, a shot in the dark? i had no problems with our tank heater!
Reply by xine
January 4, 2010 11:22PM
you have to stick your tongue in to 'feel' the stray voltage.
fish in the tank won't feel it since they are not grounded.
someone around here built a metal stand for their water trough with 3 wick candles underneath it.
it kept the water from freezing, and had no electricity. candles were inside a non combustable area with one side open for ventilation.
not sure if this would work in canada. it's a lot colder there.
xiney
January 5, 2010 06:02AM
Xine I did the tongue thing! Used the volt meter last night and it registered nothing. (0.3V - but it registerd that anywhere - to any two surfaces.)
May try a new heater - this one has been used 5 winters. Thanks guys for the help/suggestions - will let you know.
January 5, 2010 09:08AM
huh, you actually drank the water?
horse people are nuts 
('Id do it too if I had too)
(maybe)
January 5, 2010 11:29AM
Shows great dedication.
January 5, 2010 04:34PM
Thanks Gruff for the positive spin as with many things...probably somewhere in between the two
Reply by xine
January 7, 2010 12:36AM
ok, you did the tongue thing and felt nothing. yay you!
horses (and anything with 4 legs) are more sensitive to stray voltage.
picture a target with rings around a bullseye. that's how the voltage dissapates(sp), so they can feel a difference in potential just because they have 4 legs grounded.
they might feel that 0.3.
xine
January 7, 2010 04:52PM
I'm not ruling anything out but the trouble is they drink from their heated indoor buckets - and they provided the same voltage type reading.
No sign of drinking outside still. (maybe they are, a little?) I'll drain it on the weekend and refill - course then I'll have to 'retrain' them to try a drink from it again.
I have a haynet hanging beside the trough. We noticed that it was not being consumed - so we took it in the barn and it was immediately apparent that our rogue stray cat (good old intact Zephyr) had likely been spraying it. Wonder if he did the same to the trough water - the cats often sit on the cement blocks inside it and drink.
Guess I should be happy if I was only drinking fish poo water...
January 7, 2010 05:49PM
So, on your behalf Jazz, I just threw up a little in my mouth.  
I suppose the obvious "did you dump and scrub the tank" question was overlooked from the beginning! Oops
GP - founder of the "Cats are Disgusting" group
January 10, 2010 01:14AM
Good news! I was leading Dharma up to the barn to tack her up this morning, walked slightly off track to 'skirt' near the trough...and she pulled her old evasion again! Looooong drink after drink after drink (hoping that I would lose my 'riding' train of thought!).
How 'bout that - what a surprise! I'm very happy to see that, but (they?) are definitely still not drinking much.
January 10, 2010 09:09AM
Well that is reassuring .... if there was voltage I assure you they would not drink at all. Not a sip......
January 15, 2010 12:08PM
Auh - depends on the horse stonehedge - we had this issue with an outdoor header waterer before - and you could feel the tingle with boots on (tested it after seeing the horse jump) but while getting it sorted out my mare was drinking from it - sip/jump/duck - repeat.... but she's crazy lol.
Our big horses are drinking lots (trough in the barn in an enclosed box- water bed heater underneath). but the ponies are not drinking that much if the snow is fluffy - no stray voltage issues - they are drinking, just not a ton. This it normal or them in winter though.
January 15, 2010 05:00PM
Thanks for the feedback MBRA - have now 'caught' the gelding drinking from it too (once). Their consumption is WAAAAY down - I've noticed this past winters but never to this degree. They are drinking a bucket or more through the night though - hope that's enough. What are those buckets - just 5 gal? Pretty sure they should consume more (I used to know )
January 15, 2010 09:38PM
The indoor boarded horses do not have access to water during the day, but they do drink a couple of buckets when they come in and overnight. My mare has been at two different barns where water was not provided during turn out during the winter and there has never been a case of colic at either barn. They have salt (blue blocks) in the paddock and in their stalls (and my mare licks it regularly). Mind you she is also licking her Uncle Jimmy's ball! The BO tops up their buckets with hot water when they come in to encourage drinking and monitors the quantity they drink. The outdoor pasture boarders have heated troughs, but she has no way of monitoring their intake.
January 18, 2010 11:28AM
When my father was working for a wrangler on a movie set - someone questioned why the horses did not have access to water through the day... so they did a test and measured how much a horse drinks when given access to water all day and how much when only offered water twice a day (which was what the wrangler was doing) and the horses that were only offered water twice a day actually drank more water - and when you think of it - that's what they would do in the wild - they don't hang around water holes all the time.
I think as long as they are drinking well in the barn you are ok.
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